Actuator intercooler. RD 2.8

[Chipfryer]

Hi everyone. I'm sorry for my lack of French.

I have a problem with pnuematic air  actuator on my throttle body. I think the diaphragm is too old.

I have searched for a new actuator. I cannot find one.

My question is.....

Is there another actuator that will work on this engine, or a workaround?

RDTD 2.8 1999.

Thank you again. Wishing you all well. 👍 🍺

[phdv61]

Hi Mark,

it's been a while since you last posted here.

Are you sure it is the actuator itself which is faulty ? How did you come to that conclusion ?

Did you check the solenoid, connector, and hoses controlling the actuator ?

[rep2559]

C'est juste un papillon pour le fonctionnement de l'EGR, afin de bloquer l'admission pour prioriser les gazs d'échappement.
Mettre une plaque pour condamner l'EGR et déposer le volet de l'axe du papillon.

[phdv61]

Hi Mark

Here below is the translation of the work-around provided by @rep2559 for you :

"This actuator is used during EGR operation to block some of the airflow and give priority to the exhaust gases.
What you can do is simply install a plate to block the EGR, and remove the shutter from the throttle shaft"

 

[Pierre Grosjean]

 

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/252395667166?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=709-53476-19255-0&campid=5338722076&toolid=10001

 

[Chipfryer]

On 4/3/2020 at 10:52 AM, phdv61 said:

google translate is sometimes not that accurate @Chipfryer. 

'boite' is slang for 'company' , but can also mean ' a box' in French.  That's why Google translated to 'box'. Meaningless.

I just hope you managed to get some sense out of it anyway.

 

On 4/3/2020 at 11:15 AM, phdv61 said:

No need to apologize.

we know how hard it is sometimes to be understood, even in your own language !

Our little debate ended up by a 'le's have a beer to continue the discussion"  ( even if we disagree ).

That's how it has to be.

 

On 5/11/2021 at 3:01 PM, phdv61 said:

Hi Mark,

it's been a while since you last posted here.

Are you sure it is the actuator itself which is faulty ? How did you come to that conclusion ?

Did you check the solenoid, connector, and hoses controlling the actuator ?

Hi Folks, thank you.

I have an odd rough idle problem. It was quite bad after the engine was at temperature.

I cleaned the throttle body, actuator with maf cleaner. Throttle body too. 

I saw that my butterfly valve was OPEN when engine off. I presume that once it is running, the actuator pulls in the throttle body valve, thus providing balance.

What was a constant problem when the engine was at temperature, is now an intermittent one.

I even considered the idle screw was on the wrong side, but after looking at the part. There's no way that actuator could pull it that far through vaccume pressure.

I think the rubber seal on the actuator is at best very old. I know these are not serviceable unless you are brave enough. 

I have cleaned injectors with bleed technique, checked fuel delivery, battery and connections are all good. 

There is an odd clicking, or even a bad pulley sound from somewhere. I used a mechanic stethoscope, but I simply cannot find it.

The car runs very well, passed its yearly test. But this rough idle and small noise annoys me.

It is now intermittent, but still annoying.

Many apologies. I did not know anyone replied.

Thank you all.

Be well 👍

[phdv61]

Hi Mark,

i don't know that motor of yours, but on the 3.0Di, there is a 'butterfly' box at the exit of the IC, with two valves.

One of the two  is activated by the ECM (through a solenoid, and a vacuum-controlled actuator) simultaneously with the EGR.  If this valve does not work any more, you get a rough idle. cause can be the solenoid, or a broken hose.

Second source for rough idle is the dual mass flywheel. I got this very problem on my Patrol and had to replace both the flywheel and the clutch.

cheers,

Phil.

[Chipfryer]

15 minutes ago, phdv61 said:

Hi Mark,

i don't know that motor of yours, but on the 3.0Di, there is a 'butterfly' box at the exit of the IC, with two valves.

One of the two  is activated by the ECM (through a solenoid, and a vacuum-controlled actuator) simultaneously with the EGR.  If this valve does not work any more, you get a rough idle. cause can be the solenoid, or a broken hose.

Second source for rough idle is the dual mass flywheel. I got this very problem on my Patrol and had to replace both the flywheel and the clutch.

cheers,

Phil.

Hi Phil, cheers. Yes I'd thought about flywheel having read so much, as you know I do.

I'll check the tps tomorrow for connection probs. That sensor I'll have to find lol! 

I've visited a graveyard for Patrols far to frequently in this last year. Some of the machines I know from thier exploits on our roads.

So far, "touch wood" I still have the bus.

Sometimes, I feel like some Doctor or Mortician working on something I'll never save. But other times, I look out the window and see the fruits of my efforts are still there. Time will tell.

My thanks to you and folks here. 

Beers amongst people of kin are always welcome.

Be well my friend. 👍

[Chipfryer]

On 5/11/2021 at 6:55 PM, phdv61 said:

Hi Mark

Here below is the translation of the work-around provided by @rep2559 for you :

"This actuator is used during EGR operation to block some of the airflow and give priority to the exhaust gases.
What you can do is simply install a plate to block the EGR, and remove the shutter from the throttle shaft"

 

Apologies. There is no egr on this vehicle. The vaccume pipe has a bolt placed in it. 🙄

I didn't do this. @rep2559 thank you 👍

[rep2559]

If you have removed the EGR, as said, either remove the actuator or make it always open.

Modifié 19 mai 2021 par rep2559

[Chipfryer]

57 minutes ago, rep2559 said:

If you have removed the EGR, as said, either remove the actuator or make it always open.

@rep2559 Thank you very much. The EGR was removed some time ago. I did not know this, until I had learned more about the engine I have. 

What should I do with the vaccume hose(pipe) please?

Block it like the EGR pipe(hose)?

Again thank you. First help I've had in 14 months. Stay safe, well 👍

[Chipfryer]

On 5/12/2021 at 1:10 AM, Pierre Grosjean said:

 

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/252395667166?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=709-53476-19255-0&campid=5338722076&toolid=10001

 

Thank you. I saw this. I have a scrap yard here, they said they had one.

Thanks again.

[phdv61]

Mark,

the vacuum hose must be blocked, and "air tight" or should I say 'vacuum tight'.

Modifié 19 mai 2021 par phdv61

[Chipfryer]

@phdv61Hi Phil, thank you. I haven't spoken on any Forum for a long time, some 14 months or so. You have a great crowd here mate. 

Thank you again 👍

If not this, then prob the flywheel. Hope not.

Stay well.

[rep2559]

Ça tourne en rond... lol

Si il a bloquer la vanne egr, le papillon ne sert à rien donc pas besoin de le remplacer. Au contraire, il faut le supprimer ou le rendre inopérant. Je pense qu'il a toujours pas compris que ce n'est pas un papillon d'admission comme sur les essences mais juste un composant de l'EGR...
Juste retirer le disque de l'axe (maintenu par 2 vis). A partir de là pas besoin de toucher aux durites, ça n'a plus d'importance.

Modifié 19 mai 2021 par rep2559

[phdv61]

Il y a 2 heures, rep2559 a dit :

Ça tourne en rond... lol

Si il a bloquer la vanne egr, le papillon ne sert à rien donc pas besoin de le remplacer. Au contraire, il faut le supprimer ou le rendre inopérant. Je pense qu'il a toujours pas compris que ce n'est pas un papillon d'admission comme sur les essences mais juste un composant de l'EGR...
Juste retirer le disque de l'axe (maintenu par 2 vis). A partir de là pas besoin de toucher aux durites, ça n'a plus d'importance.

Sa durite de vide est bloquée par une vis qui a été mise dedans. Le volet est donc inopérant, et je pense bloqué en position ouverte ?

Sa question initiale concernait son ralenti instable. Et il cherche de l'aide. C'est un anglais qui vit un peu perdu au beau milieu de la Roumanie.

[rep2559]

J'avais compris que la vis était sur la commande de la vanne EGR, et non sur celle du papillon. Si c'est le papillon et la vanne c'est bon, mais vu le premier message qui parle d'actuateur défectueux (avec la photo du papillon)... Ça n'a pas trop de sens de s'inquiéter de la membrane et du fonctionnement du papillon si il est schinté lol.
Si c'est juste la vanne egr comme je l'ai compris, ce n'est pas bon car quand l'egr entre en fonction, le volet bloque l'admission et cela étouffe le moteur vu qu'il ne peut plus aspirer les gazs d'échappement.

Si la question est un ralenti est instable ce serait donc plus lié à la pompe et à mon sens il est bon de commencer par lire les codes erreurs et vérifier l'arrivé de gasoil.

Modifié 19 mai 2021 par rep2559

[Chipfryer]

13 hours ago, rep2559 said:

Ça tourne en rond... lol

Si il a bloquer la vanne egr, le papillon ne sert à rien donc pas besoin de le remplacer. Au contraire, il faut le supprimer ou le rendre inopérant. Je pense qu'il a toujours pas compris que ce n'est pas un papillon d'admission comme sur les essences mais juste un composant de l'EGR...
Juste retirer le disque de l'axe (maintenu par 2 vis). A partir de là pas besoin de toucher aux durites, ça n'a plus d'importance.

@rep2559 Thank you very much! Now I fully understand its operation. Hope this solves that part of the problem. Google's translate fails when viewing a thread. I understand some written French, but nuances will always evade me. Now what can you do about my horrible weather ☺

Thank you again 👍

[Chipfryer]

Ok, here goes.....

Ralenti saccadé seulement lorsqu'il est chaud.  

1. J'ai rincé les injecteurs.  

2. filtre à carburant changé.  

3. La pompe de filtration est dure.  

4. J'ai nettoyé le corps de papillon et le maf.  

5. J'ai nettoyé l'actionneur avec un nettoyant maf.  Après le nettoyage de l'actionneur, le problème est maintenant intermittent même lorsque le moteur est chaud.  plus je conduis, plus je conduis.  J'espère que c'est compréhensible?  Merci

[Chipfryer]

Update: For anyone reading this.

I just removed the butterfly plate via the 2 screws as suggested by @rep2559

While I was doing this I noticed the actuator stuck, fully closed. After several attempts, it still stuck, quite hard actually.

Anyway its gone. Idle is around 800rpm. A little too high really. Anyway, so far so good.

A test drive is needed now to see if that was the only problem.

'The noise'. That ticking or whirring sound that I have never been able to locate. Is still there. However with just the slightest press on the clutch. I mean just feather touch, it vanishes. So perhaps as @phdv61 said. It could be my dual mass flywheel. 😢

Next is error codes if I can find that plug! 😃

Thanks for your help 🤞👍

[phdv61]

On our LHD Patrols, the plug is below the steering wheel, on the left, below the fuse box.

If yours is a UK RHD, it should be below the fuse box too, wherever the fuse box is located in the cabin.

[Chipfryer]

1 hour ago, phdv61 said:

On our LHD Patrols, the plug is below the steering wheel, on the left, below the fuse box.

If yours is a UK RHD, it should be below the fuse box too, wherever the fuse box is located in the cabin.

We're LHD here too. Will look, thank you.

[Chipfryer]

Found it, thank you. 

OBD1 OR 2? Anywho, thanks 👍

[phdv61]

This is a DDL 14 pins consult port.

Here is the wiring of the plug :

Modifié 21 mai 2021 par phdv61

[phdv61]

shunt is between IGNition and Check.

Check the 12V presence before end, with a voltmeter connected between 12V IGN pin and a chassis piece.